Is it true that poverty is soulless, only if this is a consequence of greed, the remaining judgments about poverty are arrogance?

What do you think?

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  1. It is usually accepted to consider the rich as soulless. That, of course, is not very right: the spirit breathes where he wants (Joh 3: 8) I understand that the Bible, even in this matter, is not an authoritative source for everyone … For you – the author of the question – also not It is, most likely, otherwise such a question would not have arisen … However, what exactly do you call spirituality and spirituality? What is the criterion of spirituality, if we are not talking about faith? .. Let’s still read this verse completely: the spirit, like the wind, makes where it wants: you hear the noise of the wind, but where does it come and where it goes, so you don’t know, so everyone can be born From the spirit (translation of the Holy Leonid Lutkovsky), I do not claim that this is certainly so. You never know what John thought there in the words of Jesus. Theoretically could overwhelm. And you can sin on the translation. Although I like it. However, this is what the question is: what makes you doubt it? Well, or those who arrogantly consider the poverty of soulless … Maybe the Maslow pyramid?
    In one of the answers was given. Poor, poor Maslow …
    He did not think – he did not guess how it would turn out.
    He did not expect such a turn.
    He did not draw such a hippo at all …
    Well, however, this is a hippo: who else, despite the danger, will certainly satisfy the “basic” need for food? Just kidding, yes, I’m not sure about the hippo. Let’s not tolerate marketing chips on the spirituality field. Whatever it means to you. Entrance, question:
    Does spirituality prevent the satisfaction of needs? Anyway. And also, just in case:
    What behavior would you call the soulless? Regardless of the motive. Something tells me that in the process of answers to these questions there will certainly be an answer to your … In any case, we will be able to talk more objectively 🙂 Poems in the topic (Pushkin, not mine) : ⠀ Why is the wind spin in the ravine,
    Lift the sheet and dust,
    When a ship in motionless moisture
    Does his breath are eagerly waiting for?
    Why from the mountains and past the towers
    The eagle flies, heavy and terrible,
    On black stump? Ask him.
    Why is Arap
    Young loves Desdemona,
    How does a month love the nights of the minimum of the darkness?
    Then that the wind and eagle
    And there is no law to the heart of the Virgin.
    Proud: such is you, poet,
    And for you there are no conditions ⠀ Fulfed with thoughts,
    Not understood by anyone,
    Before the gibberries of the earth
    You pass, dull and him.
    You do not divide with the crowd, you are not anger
    No needs, no laughter, no Reeva,
    No surprise, no work.
    The fool shouts: where? Where? The road is here.
    But you don’t hear
    You go where you are attracted
    Secret dreams; Your work
    You a reward; you breathe …

  2. At first I will answer, which is not true. And I will try to explain my point of view. I agree with Hegel’s dialectics, who saw the world as unity and the struggle of opposites. Moreover, such duality determines not only the world of external (at least the polarity of elementary particles and the quantum-wave nature of the light), but also our subjective ideas about it: good-evil, God-demon, spiritually and so on (depending on the level The spirituality of an individual individual 🙂 Moreover, duality also extends to the methods of action with uncertainty (opposite strategies: Maximin and Minimax) and the social organization. For example, the myths of two ancient civilizations are based on our metaphysical representations: Egypt and Sumer. In many ways they were opposite. Different ways of organizing the state can be studied by the example of Greek extremes: Ancient Sparta with the laws of Lycurgus VS Athenian democracy. Even our consciousness realizes itself with two opposite (!) Methods of thinking: dialectical and metaphysical. The first way of thinking now prevails and can be called logical, scientific or rational. But even in militant atheist scientists, the opposite thinking “sluggles” somehow from the subconscious in dreams or signs and prejudices, such as you can’t put empty bottles under the table or you can’t say hello through the threshold. And this “cannot” simply perform, without using dialectical thinking. And, yes, we all know the world metaphysically and only at school in childhood, this nonsense is knocked out)) Metaphysical thinking prevailed during the period of widespread faith in God, and now, probably, develops only in closed primitive-communal enclaves in the mental direction (as the opposite of the technological ). Nevertheless, in frozen forms, it is present in quite secular societies. In the form of churches, cemeter, holidays, signs and traditions. The latter, tradition, can be considered a metaphysical skeleton of society, as well as the measure of its metaphysical maturity. But I am also confident that the meaning of our life (humanity as a whole) is a developing (in conditions of severe dualism after expelling from paradise;) some stable third state. It is on this third axis that it would be fair to measure the degree of spirituality or spiritual wisdom. Finally, about money and spirituality. To begin with, I will give a characteristic example of the dual for the ways of spiritual growth. We are talking about the teachings of Tassavuf (early Sufism), which appeared among Islam in the XI-XII centuries. The doctrine suggested two alternative development options: to become a poor dervish or adviser to the rich sheikh. Both paths were considered worthy, but the first extreme and dangerous, and the second gradual and already trodden. Thus, moving along the correct axis of spirituality, money is not affected)) The pattern that is indicated in your question is certainly present, but it is not related to the spirituality that is possible with the simultaneous understanding and adoption and poverty and wealth. The question is rather not about choosing in the process of the spiritual path, but about the choice in which direction to go. And a little more to repent to those who go without thinking)) Being at such a level of resolving the question of your spiritual growth, you inevitably come across a crafty American saying: “If you are so smart, then why are you not rich?” But the opposite (dual) answer There may well be an anecdote where the general throws the last argument in the scientist’s dispute: “If you are so smart, then why don’t you go in construction?”))

  3. At first I will answer, which is not true. And I will try to explain my point of view. I agree with Hegel’s dialectics, who saw the world as unity and the struggle of opposites. Moreover, such duality determines not only the world of external (at least the polarity of elementary particles and the quantum-wave nature of the light), but also our subjective ideas about it: good-evil, God-demon, spiritually and so on (depending on the level The spirituality of an individual individual 🙂 Moreover, duality also extends to the methods of action with uncertainty (opposite strategies: Maximin and Minimax) and the social organization. For example, the myths of two ancient civilizations are based on our metaphysical representations: Egypt and Sumer. In many ways they were opposite. Different ways of organizing the state can be studied by the example of Greek extremes: Ancient Sparta with the laws of Lycurgus VS Athenian democracy. Even our consciousness realizes itself with two opposite (!) Methods of thinking: dialectical and metaphysical. The first way of thinking now prevails and can be called logical, scientific or rational. But even in militant atheist scientists, the opposite thinking “sluggles” somehow from the subconscious in dreams or signs and prejudices, such as you can’t put empty bottles under the table or you can’t say hello through the threshold. And this “cannot” simply perform, without using dialectical thinking. And, yes, we all know the world metaphysically and only at school in childhood, this nonsense is knocked out)) Metaphysical thinking prevailed during the period of widespread faith in God, and now, probably, develops only in closed primitive-communal enclaves in the mental direction (as the opposite of the technological ). Nevertheless, in frozen forms, it is present in quite secular societies. In the form of churches, cemeter, holidays, signs and traditions. The latter, tradition, can be considered a metaphysical skeleton of society, as well as the measure of its metaphysical maturity. But I am also confident that the meaning of our life (humanity as a whole) is a developing (in conditions of severe dualism after expelling from paradise;) some stable third state. It is on this third axis that it would be fair to measure the degree of spirituality or spiritual wisdom. Finally, about money and spirituality. To begin with, I will give a characteristic example of the dual for the ways of spiritual growth. We are talking about the teachings of Tassavuf (early Sufism), which appeared among Islam in the XI-XII centuries. The doctrine suggested two alternative development options: to become a poor dervish or adviser to the rich sheikh. Both paths were considered worthy, but the first extreme and dangerous, and the second gradual and already trodden. Thus, moving along the correct axis of spirituality, money is not affected)) The pattern that is indicated in your question is certainly present, but it is not related to the spirituality that is possible with the simultaneous understanding and adoption and poverty and wealth. The question is rather not about choosing in the process of the spiritual path, but about the choice in which direction to go. And a little more to repent to those who go without thinking)) Being at such a level of resolving the question of your spiritual growth, you inevitably come across a crafty American saying: “If you are so smart, then why are you not rich?” But the opposite (dual) answer There may well be an anecdote where the general throws the last argument in the scientist’s dispute: “If you are so smart, then why don’t you go in construction?”))

  4. Spirituality and poverty sometimes correlate. Sometimes – not. It may be, poverty is caused by soullessness (greed). It can be, poverty is caused by spirituality (conscious renunciation of the benefits of worldly). It can be, poverty is not associated with soullessness. Lifestyle, hereditary script. A person simply does not know how to be different. Maybe poverty is caused not by greed, but by objective reasons (you are a woman in Afghanistan, who is not supposed to have property). And it is not a fact that such a woman feels the poor. What else could be. We have even a “Psychology of poverty” at the department, Per Petrova E.A. I didn’t read it, I threw it away. I regret it. Suddenly something important was written there? On our course “There is money!” It turned out that the reasons for the poverty are different. And that the “poor” are different. There are poor with diamonds and rich without diamonds. Bednity is a state of consciousness, not a wallet. It must be understood what exactly you call poverty, and what is spirituality to answer.

  5. The causes of economic inequality are not in the morality of some and the immorality of others.
    It is impossible to explain the phenomena that occur due to the action of objective natural laws.
    The poverty of some gives rise not to the greed of others, but completely different natural processes, although their external manifestation can be formed by economic, political or ethical processes.
    The interpretation of economic and political processes as processes organized by the sum of subjective will, as the processes of moral relations is a point of view, translated by the long-obsolete paradigm of the anthropocentric concept of the world order, which serves only the soil for creating reasons and an instrument for organizing conflicts of these very sums of subjective volume. The moral or spiritual self -awareness of a person does not depend on his property status. The spiritual life of a person is determined by natural laws acting at a higher structural level of the structure of matter than economic ones.
    Economic processes are structurally subordinate processes in relation to the first and determined by them.

  6. I would like to say that poverty does not affect the level of spiritual development of a person … But that would be not true. Here, of course, the level of poverty is important here. Because poverty, bordering on poverty, does not contribute to the formation of high spirituality. A person, being constantly on the verge of survival, spending all the time and all efforts on this very survival – has neither time, no effort, nor desire to develop spiritually.
    Recall the Maslow pyramid has not yet been resolved by basic physiological needs and the need for security – there is no way to engage in self -development. A person born in the social bottoms of society is not to blame for this. It is not to blame that his social status limits his possibilities of spiritual and moral development. It is not to blame for the fact that it is easy to buy, easy to sell, it is easy to encourage a crime.
    It is not to blame for the fact that his powerless envy, and the learned helplessness turns into a resentment … The opposite pole of the social hierarchy also does not shine especially high morality. Having a sensitive conscience and high decency – on the heads and fate of fellow citizens, to great power, and you will not climb a lot of money.
    And having scrambled, they begin to feel better than all those who were used to advance. And since the rest are worse … then treat them as equal. And applying the principle of justice is impractical. What kind of spirituality is there … Therefore, only the middle class has a truly high manifestation of social instincts, in conjunction with education and education – leading to high spirituality, morality and morality. Having achieved success and well -being thanks to his own efforts, and independent of handouts from the power of power elites. The more powerful and extensive the middle class in society, the more humane, spiritual, atheistic.

  7. Only a person himself, and not his position, can be spiritual or soulless. The position of a spiritual person can be anything, it will be spiritually. The position of an soulless person can be any, at the same time it will be soulless. A fabulously rich person can be a holy person, just as a dignitor in a cassock, even monk, may turn out to be a great sinner. You do not know what they have inside.

  8. Poverty does not mean poverty, but in our country the poverty bar is so low that these two living standards have become synonymous. And no downshift in the European sense is impossible. Following this statement, examples of conscious choice of poverty, as the contempt of materialism in the name of spiritual life, I cannot name. Most often, there are external circumstances or health problems, both mental and physical. In France and Sweden, I came across this. Being at the lower level in income, there it was somehow possible to lead a full -fledged life. Yes, counting every euro or crown and not even hoping to buy a new car, or even used, or something from designer clothing. Westerners say that Russia has been going on the transition to a social state for the past ten years. It is possible that in our years in 10-15 years, conscious poverty will become possible as a rejection of the race for material benefits.

  9. Since childhood, I remembered a quote, thanks to which I always, as I remember myself, distinguish between poverty and poverty. A very correct, in my opinion, approach. Adds the necessary shade to the division of the world into poor and the rich. This is this quote: poverty is not a vice, this is truth. […] But poverty, gracious sovereign, poverty-vice. In poverty, you still retain your nobility of innate feelings, nobody ever in poverty. They are not even expelled for poverty with a stick, but with a broom is sweeping out of the human company so that it would be more offensive; And it is fair, because in poverty I myself am the first to insult myself. If someone does not remember, these are the words of Semyon Zakharovich Marmeladov from the novel by F. M. Dostoevsky “Crime and Punishment”.

  10. Most often so. This does not mean that poverty is a sign of “spirituality” and provides moral, intellectual and other advantages.
    Although examples of “enviable” poverty are known: Homer, Cervantes, Viion, Van Gogh, Khlebnikov, Perelman … Platonov will not envy Platonov for the last years.
    Therefore, the arrogant judgments of the “rich” about the “poor” (if you are so smart, why not rich) most often not from great mind and heart.
    And the envious hatred of the “rich Pinocchio” too.
    I love Luferova:
    “Answer,” said the Lord, “if they shout at you:
    Who in the flowering century is our Bos is a fool, they say, he, –
    What is the contemptuous God gives a trough of satiety,
    And the beloved god of wanderings gives. “And since then I wander around the light tirelessly,
    As I can, I share with oncoming ones on the way.
    Whatever I take with me – everything will remain for you,
    I can only carry myself with myself. And this is a long road ahead,
    And the fate is a short one …
    Whatever I put in my pockets, I will reveal everything:
    Lei is not lei, but God gave me a jug – without a bottom. “

  11. I saw here the answer “yes”. The bastard is bastard (however, they are synonyms). If not a depravity, then honesty. Honesty is only moral whether it is accompanied by poverty, or wealth. I don’t look at the wallet, I look at the person. I see two ways to money – honest and vicious. But in the same way about poverty: I see poverty as a result of dishonesty, but I see exactly the opposite. It is dishonest, I think, to think about money, and not their own goals. And then-not about the ways-consumers of their decision.

Spiritual values ​​above economic.?

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